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Bogmeister Galactic Fleet Vice Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 574
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:12 am Post subject: TNG Episode #34: A Matter of Honor |
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A MATTER OF HONOR episode #8 of season #2 / Air Date: 2/6/89
written by Burton Armus (teleplay), Wanda M. Haight, Gregory W. Amos; Directed by Rob Bowman
______________________ A Matter of Honor
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Actually, this is a matter of an officers exchange program. They still have those in the 24th century, though I guess they're more dramatic.
The Enterprise welcomes a number of new ensigns aboard, including a Benzite (John Putch, last seen in the 1st season's Coming of Age). Wesley mistakes him for an old buddy since they look alike. This Benzite is not shy about offering ideas for improvements, irritating everyone on the bridge, including Worf (it's not wise to irritate a Klingon).
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But speaking of Klingons, the big story is Riker volunteering to fill an available first officer position on a Klingon ship, the Pagh (doesn't that mean 'nothing' or zero?). Most others think he's foolhardy to do this, with good reason. His first order of business is to beat up the Klingon 2nd officer (Brian Thompson) and then he's in danger of being raped by a couple of randy Klingon females.
Riker takes it all in stride, of course.
The bigger picture of the story is that, despite what seems like a truly alien culture to us, there are only superficial differences between Klingons and humans, a commentary on real world prejudices & fears.
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The best scene is when Riker gets into an illuminating conversation with a couple of Klingons during their 'lunch break.' Still, Riker's tenure on the Klingon ship turns out to be brief — this is hinted at as being fortunate, since eventually he would be in some irrevocable conflict on board, such as needing to assassinate the captain or something — and the subplot about some bacterial damage to both ships is kind of contrived.
But for any fans of the Klingons, this episode is practically must viewing just to see the assortment of Klingon dishes on display here — so scrumptious!
BoG's Score: 7 out of 10
BoG
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17166 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:25 am Post subject: |
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When I first saw this one I remember being puzzled by the fact that the supposedly "honorable" Klingons accepted the practice of assassinating the captain to take over his position.
Where's the honor in that? It doesn't even sound like something a pirate would do, even though they're rogues and murders in every other way. But pirates treat their captains like a king!
The Klingons insist that everything else be earned: a warriors rank, his victories, his reputation, etc.
But the assassination the captain (a rank which in the human military requires absolute loyalty and obedience) is an accepted way to be "upwardly loyal"!
That seems extremely inconsistent. I'm not really a fan of Klingons anyway, because they just seem like big, ugly, unintelligent bullies who have no interest in science or art.
And they overdress . . .
![](https://i.imgur.com/m20E5I0.jpg) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3441 Location: New York
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Trivia for "A Matter Of Honor,"(02/06/1989) }
The story was a reverse of Worf's situation as the only Klingon serving on board a Federation star ship. The producers wanted to place a human on a Klingon vessel.
Colm Meany's Transporter Chief receives the last name of O'Brien. It would be a few more years later before we would learn his first name of Miles.
John Putch who portrays the alien Benzite is the son of actress Jean Stapleton who was so memorable in her role of Edith Bunker on the classic TV show "All In The Family." John would go on to become a prolific television director.
Great to see the sets for the Bird of Prey utilized for an episode.
I'm with you, Bud. Assassination by officers in order to achieve a higher rank seems to be in opposition to the Klingon ideas of honor. This kill to rise in the hierarchy of the Klingon military philosophy is what we saw in the "Mirror Universe"from the episode on ST:TOS "Mirror, Mirror".
However, that fact aside this is a entertaining episode. |
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Pow wrote: | I'm with you, Bud. Assassination by officers in order to achieve a higher rank seems to be in opposition to the Klingon ideas of honor.
This kill to rise in the hierarchy of the Klingon military philosophy is what we saw in the "Mirror Universe" from the episode on ST:TOS "Mirror,Mirror". |
In the original series John Colicos, portraying a Klingon Commander, told Kirk that assassination was a common way for Klingons to rise in rank. Of course that was the original Cossack Klingons, not whatever the dinosaur forehead TNG Klingons are.
David. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17166 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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I'm always troubled by the idea that a race of savage aliens are routinely using advanced technology!
It seems illogical to have such beings in possession of hi-tech devices that their own civilization developed — much less being able to operate and repair.
The best example of this obvious contradiction are the Predators! It's hard to image Predator scientists, teachers, writers, etc. who have helped the race develop the technology they use — which includes energy weapons, cloaking fields, and faster-than-light starships!
Now, before anybody jumps in with an objection to this idea, please let me elaborate a bit.
I'm sure someone wants to point out that if we looked at a group of seasoned, battle-weary combat troops — or even a half-dozen redneck deer hunters from Alabama — they wouldn't exactly look much like gifted poets or brilliant rocket scientists either!
But I'll counter that by suggesting that with a hot bath, a good haircut, a close shave, and a $700 suit from an uptown Manhattan tailor, those same guys could pass for Wall Street executives!
However, if you tried that same transformation with a Klingon or a Predator, you certainly wouldn't end up with anything like Pygmalion, all set for the fancy-dress ball!
![](https://i.imgur.com/BM2oLTB.jpg) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gord Green Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 06 Oct 2014 Posts: 2948 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Anthropologicly speaking...
Predators in the Earths history have always maintained primacy through "assassination". Whether it be primate or other mammalian species the attainment of ALPHA has always required a BETA individual replacing his predessesor.
In a lion pride it requires challenging and defeating the Alpha male. The same is true in Baboons and other apes. It was true in early human cultures as well. It may not require the actual death of the Alpha, but it ends with either a death or a banishment of the original alpha.
Today that challenge and conflict may have been replaced by "politics" and it's not so unusual in the corporate world either (although the "assassination" may be more figurative than literal in reality, but always in effect.).
The Klingons have perpetuated this trait to the point that it has become "political".
Advancement requires replacement.
Just hope that we don't fall into the same pattern in our own reality. The practice found in Klingon culture may be a distasteful one to us . . . but it's not so foreign to the organism. It is all too Human. mammalian and real.
And Bud . . . as to the technological advancement of such a predatory culture, may I remind you of the great technological advances made by Nazi Germany? A truly predatory culture made advances in rocket and jet tech as well as in other scientific / technological areas of science and industry propelled by aggression of war. It used slave labor and terror to do so . . . but can we honestly say that this was not true in us as well in our past history?
Just askin'.
It's not as foreign as we may think. _________________ There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Before the movies came out, I read an article in some magazine that said that the Klingons were where they are because they are technology thieves. Some poor star faring race had the misfortune to encounter the Klingons and that's where their technology came from.
David. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17166 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:06 am Post subject: |
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I've often wondered if both the Klingons and the Predators might be explained in that manner, David. It makes perfect sense.
In Larry Niven's novel World of Ptavvs, the "slaver" race of aliens had a form of telepathy that gave them complete control over any sentient being. They weren't overly bright themselves, but they really didn't have to be! They just enslaved intelligent species and got all the technology they wanted by forcing their slaves to design and build advanced tech for them!
________________ ![](https://i.imgur.com/rHvxAav.jpg) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3441 Location: New York
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Bud, I am a fan of the sci~fi TV show "Firefly." They had a concept that somewhat reminds me of your take on how a culture as vicious as the Klingons could truly advance themselves into outer space.
One aspect of the Firefly show that never made sense to me were the deadly Reavers that everyone feared so much.
They were crazed, maniacal, savage humans. But they were also able to operate space ships with the skill of a space academy graduate! What the hell?
Premise made no sense on a series that was so wonderfully written otherwise.
Just how do insane humans manage to (a) work as a team on a space vessel, (b) pilot, maintain, & repair a complex piece of machinery? Impossible.
Last edited by Pow on Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Good point, Pow!
While pondering your post I realized just what the important difference is between the Reavers and the savage-but-sentient races like the Klingons and the Predators.
The Klingons and the Predators both have stable societies. However, the Reavers only retained some (but not many) of the abilities they had before they went crazy.
As I remember, they were colonists who were affected by a drug that was introduced into the atmosphere to reduce aggression. Unfortunately it caused 99% of the population to become so lethargic they just laid down and died!
But the remaining 1% became the crazed and sadistic creatures we see in Firefly and Serenity.
Remember, I said I just couldn't imagine Klingons or Predators who were so different from the ones we've seen in the series and movies that they could serve their society as scientists, doctors, engineers, scholars, etc. In other words, the individuals who created rather than destroyed, who invented rather than conquered.
We're forced to accept that these atypical individuals do exists (somewhere), because a stable society of sentient beings can't survive without them!
The Reavers, on the other hand, are all maniacally vicious and completely obsessed with killing. Amazingly enough, they somehow manage to work together towards the common (insane) goal of killing everyone they encounter, but they do this in a self destructive manner and to the exclusion of all other pursuits.
Being crazy doesn't automatically mean they don't have some of the skills needed to pilot their starships, and Wikipedia's article about the Reavers mentions they're ability to add various weapons to the ships they've captured.
But they also commit self-destructive acts like disabling their reactor safeties to speed up their ships. This means the crews eventually die from radiation poisoning!
The point here is that the Reavers certainly aren't raising families, forming social groups, or engaging in political systems that govern their citizens. Eventually all the Reavers will die out and the problem will be solved. That might take several decades, of course. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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johnnybear Mission Specialist
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Maybe the Klingons had left that rule unchanged for some reason, but rarely took up the challenge themselves to achieve it in the TNG era? I still prefer the original Klingons with their gravy browning hue and heavy brows and glittering gold pants, but that's just me I guess! Worf's sash is from the TOS era!
JB |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Another absurd aspect of rising in the ranks of a military organization is the total instability to the military structure as a whole.
Such assassinations would have to create a low moral among the soldiers and the officers, not to mention a paranoia and shadow of fear over every single action they do.
How do those types of military entities plan successful operations with everyone looking over their shoulder to see if the guy or gal you are shoulder-to-shoulder with isn't about to stab you in the back . . . literally!
What are the ramifications when one very capable officer is murdered and replaced by a drastically inferior officer?
No military could possibly remain an effective force under such a culture.
It seems to me that the writers were creating an alien military with this accepted assassination game within its structure in order to convey to the audience just how deadly and ruthless this particular military was to impress us.
Instead, it comes of as ridiculous and impossible to believe that any such group could be victorious or sustaining. |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Nits: The Klingons discover the parasites, and Captain Kargan quickly proclaims that they cannot fix the situation. What about putting a spacesuit on one of these great warriors and sending him outside with a phaser (disruptor) to slice off that section of the infected Pagh? Surely it's better to lose a chunk of the hull than the entire craft?
~ I was wondering, if the Pagh possess tractor beams, could they be inverted & utilized to pull off sections of the hull with the parasitic infection?
When Mendon scans the Pagh, the graphics show the infestation on the port side of the ship. But when the Enterprise removes the parasites at the conclusion of the episode, the cleanup beam strikes the starboard side.
Last edited by Pow on Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Kudos to the folks that contributed to the great discussion above! I just re-read it and I was very impressed.
Comments by Gord and several other members effectively countered my initial statements about how savage races like Klingons and Predators would not have the kind of intellectual members needed to support a stable society with advanced technology.
For example, I was especially impressed with this fine example of just how wrong I was.
Gord wrote: | And Bud . . . as to the technological advancement of such a predatory culture, may I remind you of the great technological advances made by Nazi Germany?
A truly predatory culture made advances in rocket and jet tech, as well as in other scientific / technological areas of science and industry, propelled by aggression of war. It used slave labor and terror to do so . . . but can we honestly say that this was not true in us as well in our past history? |
Wow. Gordo, ya got me!
Other members made similar points with strong arguments — all of which convinced me that my initial statement was way off base! ![Embarassed](images/smiles/icon_redface.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Pow wrote: | Another absurd aspect of rising in the ranks of a military organization is the total instability to the military structure as a whole.
No military could possibly remain an effective force under such a culture. |
Right you are!
And it always struck me as the height of hypocrisy for the Klingon's to claim that an individual's "honor" was the most important thing.
Honor is defined as high respect; great esteem.
It's also defined as adherence to what is right or to a conventional standard of conduct.
~ "I must, as a matter of honor, avoid any taint of dishonesty"
So, what do Klingon individuals want to be esteemed and respected for? Apparently it's their ability to be completely disloyal, dishonest, ruthless, and selfish!
To that, I reply —
__________![](https://i.imgur.com/uUxfOeI.jpg) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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