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Robert (Butch) Day Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 19 Sep 2014 Posts: 1437 Location: Arlington, WA USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Wonderful retrospective on the Enterprise "D"!l
Can you do a similar retrospective on The Excelsior, and the Enterpise "NX", "B", "C", and "E"?
And on the pilot version of Pike's Enterprise (By the number of crew members, 200+ versus Kirk's Enterprise of 430+, she must be a smaller ship, probably about 1/2 way between Archer's "NX" and Pike's ship.
I wonder if anyone has made a size chart showing Just the various Enterprises, the Excelsior, the Metalunan saucer, the ship from Earth Vs the Flying Saucers, the true size of the C-57-D (176 feet diameter at best estimates) and the Jupiter II (60 to 80 feet diameter depending on the source) and Gemini 12 (40 feet diameter, 38 feet 8 inches according to the set blueprints)? _________________ Common Sense ISN'T Common |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17190 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Here's part 2 of Chekov's Enterprise from Starlog issue #31.
Click on each page here to see a large, easy-to-read version you can zoom in on. Click on the large version again, and then zoom in as close as you want!
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![](https://i.imgur.com/Xgx3C3B.jpg) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17190 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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This seems to be the last installment of Walter Koenig's autobiography, part 3 in Starlog issue #32. Unless the book is shorter than I remember, this is an abridged version.
Click on each page here to see a large, easy-to-read version you can zoom in on. Click on the large version again, and then zoom in as close as you want!
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![](https://i.imgur.com/WHNRMBE.jpg) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17190 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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My fellow members, for your enjoyment I'd like to present, the results of my most challenging restoration of a Starlog article to date!
The late Bulldogtrekker (Tim Edwards), who was All Sci-Fi's most dedicated Star Trek fan, would have loved this article. I'd like to dedicate this post to his memory.
This Starlog article from issue #32 has the distinction of being one of the most interesting I've found so far . . . and the article with the worst scans!
Please take the time to compare the original jpegs at the links directly below the carefully restored versions, which I spent several hours creating today.
As always, click on each page here to see a large, easy-to-read version you can zoom in on. Click on the large version again, and then zoom in as close as you want!
Below each image you'll see this:
Click here to see the original page above, before I enhanced it.
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~ Click here to see the original page above, before I enhanced it.
~ Click here to see the original page above, before I enhanced it.
~ I combined the first two pages seen above into the one below so that the picture that was displayed in two parts could be seen together.
~ Click here to see the original page above, before I enhanced it.
~ Click here to see the original page above, before I enhanced it.
~ Click here to see the original page above, before I enhanced it.
~ Click here to see the original page above, before I enhanced it.
~ Click here to see the original page above, before I enhanced it. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Robert (Butch) Day Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 19 Sep 2014 Posts: 1437 Location: Arlington, WA USA
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:05 am Post subject: |
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Don't forget this weird version of the Big "E". from Bizarro's world:
![](https://i.imgur.com/sg25PyH.jpg) _________________ Common Sense ISN'T Common |
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Robert (Butch) Day Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 19 Sep 2014 Posts: 1437 Location: Arlington, WA USA
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:49 am Post subject: |
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This is part of the 50th anniversary of Star Trek TOS. I wish the movie started with this! Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87fO_6N0ITA _________________ Common Sense ISN'T Common |
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Bogmeister Galactic Fleet Vice Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 574
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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_______________ Star Trek: The Motion Picture
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_________________________ ✷STAR TREK✷
________________________ the Motion Picture
WILLIAM SHATNER ✷ LEONARD NIMOY ✷ DeFOREST KELLEY and STEPHEN COLLINS as Decker ✷ presenting PERSIS KHAMBATTA ✷ co-starring JAMES DOOHAN ✷ WALTER KOENIG ✷ GEORGE TAKEI ✷ NICHELLE NICHOLS MAJEL BARRETT ✷ with GRACE LEE WHITNEY ✷ Directed by ROBERT WISE
____________ ![](https://i.imgur.com/9lfPlC0.jpg)
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When I first saw this film in the theaters in ‘79, my head was still fresh with images & memories of the TV series. I’d been dazzled by the energy & pacing of the series . . . but this film was like the anti-Trek to me at this point, a reversal of all the things which, in my mind, made the series so great.
My response to the person who first asked how the movie was back then was that I’d almost fallen asleep in my seat. I was young, of course, and looking for action.
However, on my 2nd & 3rd viewing, on video, I found that I could sit back and relax, allowing myself to appreciate Robert Wise’s attempts to present a search for metaphysical answers. I was able to place aside the hubris of a classic TV show dominating my thought processes, and admire the new FX (especially the much-later upgraded Director’s edition), despite the obvious flaws of the story’s structure and style.
Unfortunately, the one problem for me that still exists after all this time is the deadly slow pace which informs almost the entire film.
This pace is set during the initial sequence of the detailed Klingon warships moving towards their fate; the ships seems to move in slow motion as the camera pans over, under and all around them so we can appreciate the detail. I do appreciate the reverence that Wise and all the others involved apparently had for the entire Roddenberry concept; such a lack of reverence usually derails film updates or remakes of older properties. But, in this case, there was too much reverence, if such a thing is possible.
We are asked to worship the Enterprise when the ship is first revealed, waiting to be launched. But the sequence ends up alienating us — forcing us to wait as the story pulls to a dead stop — a major miscalculation to be repeated a few times. For those unfamiliar with this, Scotty shows off the refitted Enterprise’s exterior to Kirk, from the vantage point of a shuttlecraft.
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I did admire the entire sequence in San Francisco; this was a fine establishing set-up, but I was a bit puzzled that the city skyline had barely changed 300 years from now. Starfleet HQ had been plunked here across the Bay, but every thing else was virtually the same. A little odd and unsettling in view of the futuristic scenery we’d witnessed in a few episodes, via matte paintings.
The other establishing visual shot on Vulcan was also well done, especially in the upgraded version.
And, yes, like many fans, what I couldn’t warm up to were the new uniforms, a switch to a monochrome palette. It looked like everyone was caught off-guard in their leisure suits and had to rush off to face the approaching threat to Earth. This ‘look’ also suggested The ‘70s, inadvertently.
When it comes to the characters and the acting involved, there’s some disappointment.
DeForest Kelley as McCoy is fine (as usual), while the co-starring roles are too small to be judged with any great incisiveness, though Doohan has a couple of good scenes and Koenig can still scream with the best of ‘em. But Shatner, I can only deduce, had been away from the role for too long. He was stiff and strangely grim, as if Kirk had just escaped a Romulan detention cell after 10 years of captivity. This was especially evident in the early scenes.
Both Shatner & Nimoy seemed to have trouble getting into a certain groove again. Perhaps they should have studied tapes of themselves on the old show, though this may have been purposely avoided because the characters WERE older (though only about 3 years older, according to the internal Trek chronology).
Nimoy had another excuse, in that his character was purging himself of emotion as the story began. Even Shatner cannot be blamed for everything in regards to his stilted character, because the dialog is unrefined in places. Kirk “needs” McCoy, then he “needs” Spock. What was really needed was a polish or another draft of the script, cleaning up the clumsy dialog.
The new characters of Decker (Collins) and Ilia (Khambatta) did not fare better. Decker is, at best, quite bland, and his antagonism towards Kirk is unconvincing. Any melodrama or dark moods, one would think, should involve the huge threat approaching Earth, but it seemed like the focus was on who respects whom and all about careers in the first half of the film.
So, when the heroic officers finally do encounter the threat in the film, do things improve? Not really.
Unbelievably, the slow pace becomes even worse at this point. Part of the problem here is the great size of the ship, the entity which will become known as V’Ger. The Enterprise slowly explores the area around and in the gigantic ship and the draggy pace we experienced when Scotty gave Kirk an exterior tour of the Enterprise near the start is magnified here to the point where I’m straining not to shout at the screen, “Something happen!”
The size of the giant ship, V’Ger, prompted a certain kind of approach by the filmmakers — Wise and the FX technicians. Because V’Ger is so big, the audience is unable to view the ship in its entirety or see what form it takes (except in a later shot as it reaches Earth). The Enterprise and the crew are too close to V’Ger during most of the film, their perspective allowing us to view only small portions of V’Ger.
These scenes are all quite dark visually, presumably purposely mysterious, and rather than promote wonder in us they just exasperate us, testing our patience. I strain to make out what I’m looking at during this sequence and, even after multiple views, I’m still not sure during much of it.
Could this have been done successfully? I don’t know.
There are no real answers to the questions posed here; the questions are deep, upon reflection, for a Hollywood film — asking about the purpose of existence. The thing is, if a filmmaker sets up such thoughtful questions, he’d better be prepared to come up with some conclusions at the end to balance things out.
The further evolution of V’Ger by merging with a human being at the end recalls the film 2001: A Space Odyssey, to an extent. In fact, many of the scenes of the crew exploring V’Ger, notably Spock’s solitary expedition, seem to copy Kubrick’s sci-fi venture into visual poetry.
But, grafting on the elements of such a sixties science fiction seminal work onto Star Trek almost guarantees a cumbersome result. Very few, if any, of the original Trek episodes were anti-climactic; in fact, their conclusions were usually the strongest aspect of TOS.
A final criticism levied at this film is that it just copies the plot of one of the original episodes, The Changeling, with simply $40 million more dollars piled on.
Frankly, I think I’ve mentioned enough negative points that there’s no need to belabor this last one.
BoG's Score: 6 out of 10
And, for anyone familiar with Robert Wise’s work, the final result should be no real surprise. Yes, it’s one of his lesser efforts, but Wise’s films are all very serious, on the slow side and methodical; his most exciting effort, West Side Story, had a co-director and his most interesting (for me), Executive Suite, focused on corporate drama and lengthy dialog. His other sci-fi pictures, The Day the Earth Stood Still and The Andromeda Strain, avoided action and concentrated on ideas.
____________ [img][/img]
Star Trek the Motion Picture also focused on ideas (or at least one idea), to the exclusion of pacing, tension and action. Finally, was it necessary to name the threat V’Ger? If it had been called the mysterious Voyager, would that really have given the game way?
__ 'STAR TREK: The Motion Picture' in 10 minutes
__________
BoG
Galaxy Overlord Galactus
Last edited by Bogmeister on Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:24 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17190 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Unlike BoG's glowing review of Alien (which I'm not a fan of), I agree with his detailed criticisms of this movie 100%. His descriptions of the film's fault are dead on target, and I've never been able to muster the kind of appreciation for it which our late friend, Bulldogtrekker, had.
It was his all-time favorite movie, and he just couldn't understand why I didn't share his love for it. However, I still bought the DVD so I could watch it with him from time to time (from our homes in separate states) while we chatted on Facebook.
Hey, what's a friend for, eh?
I enjoyed those shared viewings just because I knew he loved the movie — and naturally the film does have its own merits. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Maurice Mission Specialist
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 485 Location: 3rd Rock
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Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Bogmeister wrote: | I did admire the entire sequence in San Francisco; this was a fine establishing set-up, but I was a bit puzzled that the city skyline had barely changed 300 years from now. Starfleet HQ had been plunked here across the Bay, but every thing else was virtually the same. A little odd and unsettling in view of the futuristic scenery we’d witnessed in a few episodes, via matte paintings. |
The problem I have with the Director's Edition portrayal of San Francisco is they altered the design created for the film originally, which depicted a much smaller city amongst rolling hills sans skyscrapers. This is apparent in the following shot, which was cut from the final release.
Note that you can see Coit tower to the far left and the Transamerica Pyramid, but everything else has changed. _________________ * * *
"The absence of limitations is the enemy of art."
― Orson Welles |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3456 Location: New York
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:46 am Post subject: |
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BoG's review really hit the nail on the head.
We fans were so excited that our dream of a Star Trek film with a lavish budget was finally coming to the silver screen.
The production values were superb. The story was intriguing but it was executed in such a lethargic manner that it hurt the movie.
Shatner's performance is odd, as if he forgot just who the Kirk character was & how he played the role for 3 seasons.
Many loathe the new uniforms, but I was not one of 'em.
Not exactly my faves either. The mistake made was they were devoid of the original TV show's colors. Gone was the gold, blue, and red — only to be replaced by bland gray.
Had the uniforms retained the same colors from the show it would have been much better.
I'd read that Robert Wise decided that the original colors were too vibrant and would detract from the actors.
So he went with the duller hues.
I was stunned that such a talented and prolific director as Bob Wise would make such a novice error this advanced in his career.
Films have had the casts in colorful and sharp looking clothing almost from the beginning of movies. It always enhanced a film, especially the great musicals.
How Wise did not catch this stuns me to this day.
The redesigned Enterprise remains one of the most magnificent looking starships to this day. I always cite this as an example to fans of other TV shows that are to be adapted to a film or rebooted as a new TV series.
Those fans want nothing changed one iota of the designs of the original models.
There is always room for improvement and ST:TMP made that evident.
It is also not realistic that as time goes on the technology would not have advanced. To have had the Enterprise for ST:TMP appear exactly as it did in the 1966 TV show without alterations of any kind would have been disappointing. It would not make any sense that no tech advances were going on in the Federation for the last decade.
I do salute ST:TMP for at least getting the franchise ball rolling so that we'd be able to look forward to future ST films. |
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Eadie Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 1695
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I talked to Butch about this and he said that in an interview with Mr. Wise at the Seattle Center for the Seattle International Film Festival in July of 1980 that he has his early training on black & white movies and he chose such bland colored uniforms to make the actors' faces stand out. _________________ ____________
Art Should Comfort the Disturbed and Disturb the Comfortable. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17190 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Pow's assessment of this movie's short comings, and I can't help thinking that Mr. Wise just didn't do his homework before taking charge of this movie version of the phenomenally popular series. Rejecting colorful uniforms was forgivable (sort of . . . ), but not realizing that the heart and soul of Star Trek TOS was it's fast-paced, energetic, adventurous stories.
He (and Paramount) wanted to make a "serious" version of Star Trek, and it apparently never occurred to them that Star Trek could combine a "serious" story with humor and adventure . . . like it had for three years, capturing the hearts of sci-fi fans world wide.
As a result they made both the story and characters as colorless as the bland uniforms.
Thankfully today's young filmmakers don't make that mistake, which is why movies like the Marvel films are skillful blends of drama, humor, adventure, and wild imagination.
Thank goodness . . . ![Cool](images/smiles/icon_cool.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17190 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Maurice wrote: | There's a documentary called Sense of Scale about motion picture model work, and they have an extended clip of the section about ST:TMP on YouTube which has some photos I'd never seen before and some insights into how some of the effects were accomplished.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICojAZ95aM |
This sounds like a wonderful video, Maurice, but the link doesn't work anymore. Can you find a new version of it and post it here?
Thanks! ![Very Happy](images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3456 Location: New York
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Just read an article about the making of ST:TMP.
Gives lots of insights on the immense challenges facing Paramount in the making of the film.
William Shatner said that one of the reasons that each subsequent Star Trek film cost so much was that they were required to rebuild the sets anew for each film. Paramount would destroy the sets at the end of each movie not thinking the studio would produce sequels.
Change of management several times also contributed to the edict to tear down the sets at the end of each film.
Instead of doing a "fold & hold'' of the sets where they fold 'em up and place them in storage, sets were destroyed. |
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johnnybear Mission Specialist
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Joined: 15 Jun 2016 Posts: 441
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like shortsightedness on a massive scale to me!!! Don't the people who own the studios keep an eye on the idiots that they pay to manage their affairs?
JB |
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