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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3435 Location: New York
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I've never read anything about a shelf, Krel, but that certainly doesn't mean it didn't exist. |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3435 Location: New York
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Un-produced script for Voyage.
"The Surfers" by William Read Woodfield originally scheduled for filming June 03, 1965.
Synopsis } While on a routine cruise, Seaview discovers a sunken tanker carrying missile fuel.
An investigation by Admiral Nelson in the Flying Sub takes him over Gull Island, home of millionaire playboy Gideon Brand.
Brand is actually housing an elite terrorist unit disguised as surf bums. Weapons are concealed in surf board wax and lipstick, and the surf boards are self-contained torpedoes ready for enemy infiltration on the West Coast.
Stuart Casey is the newest crewman on board the Seaview.
He's eighteen years old, a free spirit and a bit of an oddball who is having difficulty fitting in with the discipline of the submarine.
Stuart is also a former world surfing champion who Brand intends to recruit into his nefarious operation.
WRW is a marvelous writer but this particular script seems far fetched even for a Voyage episode.
I'm also curious as to what Brand's plan is exactly? Is he working with a foreign country; groups within America?
Kinda seems strange that a champion surfer who is a ''free spirit and oddball'' would be drawn to the submarine service in the first place.
What about all those fun days under the sun while surfing; lucrative endorsements; beautiful gals in bikinis?
Again, perhaps the full script answers these questions compared to the outline I have.
But the whole plot just doesn't grab me.
Sounds more like a story line you'd see on "The Man From UNCLE" when they did their horrendous silly camp episodes on the third season of that spy show.
That third season change of formula for UNCLE happened when "Batman" became a huge hit TV show with its wild, wild plots, comedy, and camp approach.
Either the network or the producers for UNCLE decided that the "Batman" way of doing things which translated into a huge viewership, was just what UNCLE would copy.
It was a disaster. For UNCLE's fourth season---which was to be its last---they attempted to return to the more serious manner that the show originally had had.
Too late; fans had deserted UNCLE in droves after suffering through the show's ridiculous third year. |
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Pow, I watched "Hell and High Water", and I must thank you, it was a great adventure film and surprisingly violent for the time. That may have been because it was directed by Samuel Fuller.
U.N.C.L.E. always had a strong thread of humor in the first season, but it got progressively worse in the second and third seasons. For the fourth season they eliminated all the humor, which was bad. In the fourth season it was the opposite, a very popular show, but the ratings were still decent, so it could have gone either way. But what really killed the show is at the time ALL the networks were on an anti-violence crusade, and they killed off a few shows because of it. "The Wild, Wild West" on CBS was canceled for the same reason.
David. |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3435 Location: New York
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:37 am Post subject: |
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I just read what I believe to be an excellent description of all the Irwin Allen SF TV shows by Marc Cushman.
"Action rather than drama; caricature rather than character; ingenuity rather than creativity; craft rather than art. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, that says it all.
Hollywood didn't demand intelligent stories — they just wanted a nightly dose of "eye candy" and "razz·ma·tazz" to keep the masses in front of their TVs during those endless commercials.
Just look at what they did to sell us the stuff the sponsors were selling!
The ones in the video below which include cast members from The Dick Van Dick Show — performing on the sets and acting in character — seem especially deceptive and dishonest!
________________ Kent cigarette commercial
__________ ![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/n4W-wl_yvlE/hqdefault.jpg) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3435 Location: New York
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Oh man, I grew up seeing these bs cig ads on television.
Always loved how they showed handsome gents and gorgeous gals in the great outdoors enjoying sporting activities in those cigarette ads.
How about the scenes where they develop COPD, or worse, and can no longer walk up the stairs of their house unless they are tethered to oxygen tanks?
Those abominable tobacco companies knew for years just how harmful their product was. They did everything in their power to suppress that information from the public. They bought many a politician.
How's this for irony?
I saw Larry King interview Dick Van Dyke & Mary Tyler Moore when both were older.
Mary & Dick discussed how difficult it had been to ween themselves off cigarettes, which they eventually did. Wonder what they thought about that Kent commercial they did back in the day?
Ever notice how smoking was made glamorous & sexy in films back in day? All the heroic manly men smoked 'em if they had 'em. And the sexy gals too.
They really bamboozled our culture for decades.
Then I noticed when smoking finally fell out of fashion in films and TV, only the villains or nasty people smoked now.
Never the heroes or heroines anymore.
If you look at the deaths of early film stars from cancer or heart disease, you see just how many were heavy smokers (and more than a few were heavy drinkers).
Errol Flynn & Humphrey Bogart were deceased by their 50s.
Tyrone Power by his 40s.
Gene Roddenberry told the story that a tobacco company offered to advertise on ST:TOS if they had scenes every now and then of cast members smoking!
Fortunately, Gene who was a smoker himself, knew a very, very bad idea when he heard it & refused.
Smoking would sadly kill Leonard Nimoy . . . and that was twenty years after he had stopped.
Stumbled across a site called the Female Celebrity Smoking List. Astonishing to see that 99% of the actresses in film and TV are real life smokers! Same goes for most of the female models. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Pow wrote: | Ever notice how smoking was made glamorous & sexy in films back in day? All the heroic manly men smoked 'em if they had 'em. And the sexy gals too.
They really bamboozled our culture for decades.[/size] |
During my six-year friendship with Bulldogtrekker (the late Tim Edwards), we did on-line chats almost every day of the week, and we developed amusing rituals which livened up our conversations.
For example, when we watched classic movies from the 1930s and 1940s, we'd each offer our opinions on the hats the ladies wore. Sometimes they were small and cute, but other times they were large and hideous!
However, sometimes they were large and elegant, with wide brims that shaded the lady from harch sunlight or hid her lovely face when she wanted to be demure.
Tim and I didn't always agree — but that's what made it fun.
One of our longest running rituals was competing to see who would be the first to type "smoking" in the chat room each time a character lit up a cigarette! And that happened frequently in those old movies.
It was sort of like the "drinking game" where everybody in the room knocks back a shot of liquor ever time they hear a word or phrase in the movie or show on the TV!
But it certainly made Tim and I aware of the way Hollywood promoted the idea that "cool people smoked".
I'm sure you guys have all seen the cartoon that presented the clever joke shown below, borrowed by that International Man of Mystery, Austin Powers.
![](https://i.imgur.com/ogORttq.png) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3435 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Although I enjoyed all of Irwin Allen's SF productions as a kid, as an adult I find them woefully lacking in substance.
They have not dated well from the standpoint of logical plotting, intelligence, or character development.
His productions were terrific eye-candy but little more.
However, in certain arenas of life I do find the man admirable.
He was born Irwin Grinovit in NYC on June 12, 1916.
It was a modest home for Irwin.
He had a keen interest in books and was fiercely ambitious.
When he finally arrived in Hollywood, he had no connections or open doors available to him in showbiz.
What he did have was a powerful work ethic. He would work all his life from early mornings to late at night. Weekends included.
His wife, Sheila Matthews Allen, once said "He always wanted to be associated with the circus in some way. So, I guess when he came out here (California), he was running away to join the circus."
Allen would make a film about his love of the circus for Allied Artists in 1959 called "The Big Circus."
When I just recently read about Allen's love for the circus, it hit me with some irony.
Previously, I had written about the fact that his productions were like a three-ring circus and Allen was the ringmaster.
Many had a love/hate relationship for Allen.
He had an imperial air about him and acted as an emperor.
Many feared him and were intimidated by him. He was a workaholic, had almost zero humor, and surrounded himself by yes men
He would test people to see if they would stand up to him. Sometimes this garnered you his respect; other times you were shown the door.
One of the executives at the ABC network where VTTBOTS was produced commented that in spite of their occasional clashes with him,"We got a kick out of him."
He was flamboyant.
There was nothing subtle about him or his productions.
Allen once said of his productions: 'I'm not serving caviar; I'm serving popcorn.'
He had a fast and agile mind according to those who worked for him. He knew everyone's job on his productions because he learned them on all the productions he worked on as he came up the ladder.
I still remain disappointed in the man because he offered SF fans little meat on the bone with his SF TV series. The shows are superficial and have not dated well regarding the scripting.
I also don't care for his 'emperor' style, using intimidation and fear to rule over his staff.
I doubt I would have ever liked this guy.
But I will say this for Irwin Allen, he worked like a dog to achieve everything he got. Nobody handed him anything.
We can also say that of others like Rod Serling or Michael Landon. They did not have it any easier than Allen but neither did they ever run their operations based on creating a fearful atmosphere trying to intimidate others.
It was said of Landon that you did not work for him but that you worked with him. And the same can be said of Rod Serling.
Why some resort to a more humane kind of way to run their shows; and why others come on with the force of General Patton; who knows? |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3435 Location: New York
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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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"Jonah and the Whale," Sunday, September 19, 1965 would be the very first episode for VTTBOTS's second season.
The second season, as well as the following season's thereafter would be filmed in color instead of black and white as the first season of the show had been done.
Footage of the animatronic whale from the first season episode "Ghost of Moby Dick" was recycled for this episode.
However, it was given a blue tint for this color episode since GoMD was shot in black and white during season number one.
The production did shoot some new giant whale footage too for this episode.
Other changes for the second season of the show were made.
The observation nose of the Seaview is now on the same level as the Control Room.
Admiral Nelson now has a laboratory with fish tanks.
The bottom of the sub now has hanger doors.
The doors enclose the biggest and most exciting addition to the Seaview: the Flying Sub or "FS1."
The FS1 is a beautifully designed vehicle. It can act just as it is named, both as a submarine or a flying aircraft.
It was created in order to be able to tell new stories where an aircraft would be essential to the plot.
It could also get the characters to locations faster than the Seaview could do; and would give the audience something fresh to look at instead of the Seaview's sets all the time.
The second season would see Harve Bennett become a producer for Voyage in its second season.
Bennett would later go on to produce the Star Trek feature films with the original cast.
Harve preferred to have as little to do with Irwin Allen as possible.
The interior of the whale on this episode was one of the sets created for the 20th Century Fox classic SF movie "Fantastic Voyage" 1966.
Allen was known for utilizing any sets from other productions which weren't nailed down according to his team.
The set was actually seen for the first time by audiences on Voyage because this episode premiered in the fall of 1965 before the FV film was released in August of 1966.
Composer Jerry Goldsmith was hired to write a new music score for the opening and closing of the show's second season.
The reaction to the brand new music score was met negatively.
Allen switched back to Paul Sawtell's original score for the show by the following episode.
The budget was set at $149,559. The final cost was $199,115.
Miniature work alone cost $1,445.
This did not include the cost of utilizing the "Green Tank" on the 20th Century Fox backlot.
The tank was 20 feet deep and held 50,000 gallons of water.
The Moat was also used. It held 145,000 gallons and was being used about three times a week for productions.
It had to be drained after each use in order to have the water clear for photography.
18,580,000 gallons were used annually, at a cost of $24,750.
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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The fact about the change (and change back) of the title theme is interesting.
The one below is the one I know and love, but I can't figure out why the title of it is Paul Sawtell & Jerry Goldsmith - Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea.
I can't find a video that's supposedly the rejected Goldsmith score. Is the one below a collaboration, and Goldsmith's rejected score is not available?
Paul Sawtell & Jerry Goldsmith - Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea
__________ ![](https://i.imgur.com/SYzCYso.jpg) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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I can see why the Gerry Goldsmith theme only lasted one episode, it's kind of ominous.
The episode "Jonah and the Whale" is on Youtube. The theme start about the 2:50 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxqRQdkx6W4
I know I've said this before, but IA didn't think of his shows as SF shows, but action shows with SF trappings. He said his shows were for the working Joe, who just wanted to sit back and be entertained after a hard day at work.
But the first and second season episodes did have some good drama and SF. For some reason the show changed about the mid second season. The Seaview deck set, and the NIMR dock (which was used as many different locations) went away, as did location and backlot filming. I would love to see a wide-angle view showing the whole of the dock and moat set.
After they lost the large water tank, they built a smaller one for the underwater miniature and diver scenes. In the small thank, the large Seaview could only move about two or three feet before it would hit the other wall of the tank.
I don't know it the budget got slashed or if those locations on the Fox lot were sold off. Fox was still struggling to stay solvent after the "Cleopatra" losses.
David. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Boy, are you right about that Goldsmith's theme! It sucks!
The Paul Sawtell theme is absolutely beautiful, and when it's combined with the open shot of the Seaview slowly submerging, it's an inspiration to sci-fi fans who watch this series. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Today I received the Netflix disc of Season 2, with the first group of episodes!
By God, episode one — Jonah and the Whale — is terrific! The FX are wonderful, and the concept of a super-sized whale that aggressively defends its pod against the intrusion of mankind is praiseworthy.
(Okay, they never actually explained the murderous motivations of the giant whale, but the story is so well written I figured the writers just didn't get to explain that part. )
The use of the Fantastic Voyage "body set" for the whale's stomach was inspired — although it's far more colorful, complex, and well-lit than the interior of a whale's stomach would be.
But, of course, I feel that "artistic license" permits the beautification of a cetacean's innards for the sake of cinematic aesthetics.
The scenes of the divers entering the drugged whale through its mouth and stumbling down its gullet on their way to the stomach were incredible — complete with gastric convolutions and frequent blasts of digestive juices spraying from the sides!
I should point out, however, that this meant Captain Crane and the other divers were being doused by corrosive stomach acid, which would have eaten the wetsuits right off their backs and then turned the men into beef broth . . .
I also noticed that while the divers were struggling to reach the diving bell and rescue Admiral Nelson and Comrade HotBlondski, we heard the constant sound of the whale "breathing".
Whales breath on the surface, then they take a deep breath and dive . . . after which they can hold their breath for up to ninety minutes.
On the positive side, the "science dialog" by the crewmen was surprising plausible, and the shots of the Seaview suspended near the drugged whale as it lay on the ocean floor looked good!
And most of all, I was impressed by the writing. For example, the discussions between Admiral Nelson and the sexy blond Russian scientist while they were trapped inside the whale was extremely impressive.
The climax is eye-popping! I recommend watching the episode at the link below and enjoying this amazing story!
Note to Pow: You've spent weeks entertaining us on All Sci-Fi with fact-packed posts about this show, and I've enjoyed them all . . . even though I've never been a fan!
But you've convinced me to give it a fresh look, and this episodes has proven me wrong!
Thanks!
_______________S02E01 Jonah and the Whale
__________ ![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cxqRQdkx6W4/hqdefault.jpg) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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The season 2 episode 2 episode — Time Bomb — doesn't offer an oceanic story the way Jonah and the Whale did, but the premise is solidly sci-fi, and the opening scenes treat us to some great modifications of Seaview!
For example, an early scene shows us that the observation deck windows have been positioned on the same level as the bridge (and reduced to one row of four), but this episode also shows us that a hatch in the floor of the observation deck leads down to the Flying Sub, located directly beneath it!
Shortly after that we see Captain Crane in this cabin communicating with a lovely lady on a beautifully designed audio/video device on his desk. It's as least as good as the Enterprise's desktop devices shown on Star Trek TOS . . . and I was very impressed.
I should mention here that I was in the U.S,. Air Force from 1967 to 1971, so I missed most of Star Trek TOS during it's first run. When I got out of the Air Force in 1971, I began watching Star Trek in reruns on a little B&W television.
Despite this, I loved it!
But I never got into Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, either before I went into the Air Force in 1967 or after I got out 1971.
So, now I'm looking forward to watching this series and enjoying what I missed in my youth. ![Cool](images/smiles/icon_cool.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Moving the observation deck to the control room level was both a cost and time saver. It eliminated a large set, eliminating the extra lighting and camera setups, and sped up the action getting the characters to the observation ports quicker.
The outside restaurant in "Time Bomb" was the moat, which was also used as the Seaview dock set. The first two seasons (well half of the second season, when it went away) used it as a lot of different locations.
David. |
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