ALL SCI-FI Forum Index ALL SCI-FI
The place to “find your people”.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

I've invented artificial gravity for the Moon colony!

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> SCIENCE now, add FICTION later
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17018
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: I've invented artificial gravity for the Moon colony! Reply with quote

How could we possibly increase the gravity on the Moon?

Do we need to invent artificial gravity after initiating a “Manhattan Project” that would solve this monumental task and revolutionize our entire civilization?

That would be great, of course! Very Happy

Or should we find some fantastic way to lay down a thin foundation of degenerate matter from a neutron star a few millimeters thick on the surface of the moon and then build or lunar colony on top of it?

If we actually could invent a way to acquire the right amount of degenerate matter and shape it into a flat sheet for our purposes, theoretically this would work! Shocked

Well, perhaps in the future these ambitious methods will be used. But in the meantime I suggest that we’ve got the answer right now and right here on Earth — at every State Fair in America! Very Happy

A Cyclone amusement park ride uses centrifugal force to create artificial gravity that can be perpendicular to the normal pull of the Earth. In fact, it can hold its riders firmly in place even when the ride tilts 45° and works almost against the pull of the Earth!






So, imagine such a ride that positioned the people at a 45° angle at the beginning of the ride, thereby combining the outward pull of the spinning platform with the normal downward pull of gravity!

The result would be an increase in the G-force of Earth’s normal gravitational pull! Earth’s gravity would be pulling them DOWN at one-G, and the spinning platform would be pulling them both down a bit and outward against the titled platform’s floor.

If that sounds confusing, consider this. In the picture below, the riders are experiencing increased weight at the low side of the ride, and decreased weight at the high side!






What I’m suggesting is a version of this principal which provides the riders with a combination of normal gravity pulling them straight down and the centrifugal force which pulls them both down toward the floor to some degree and outward at the same time — because the floor is slanted at 45° angle.

The combination of these two forces actually increases the downward pull the riders would experience!

Okay, now picture a giant version of this on the Moon.

The main living area of the colony (which is located inside the crater at the lunar North Pole) is a huge circular piece of machinery which spins the entire structure at just the right speed to add centrifugal force to the Moon’s gravity, thereby creating a one-G downward pull for everything on the rotating ring!

Artificial one-G gravity on the Moon! Very Happy

If anybody out there is thinking, “Where did Bud come up with this silly idea?” . . . I actually got it from Wernher Von Braun! This is basically just his doughnut shaped space station — but the floor is tilted at a 45° angle so that the centrifugal force is combined with the Moon’s gravity to create a one-G effect.



All of the areas in the lunar colony, both outside and inside the rotating ring, would have normal lunar gravity. Solar panels positioned all the way around the top of the crater would receive constant sunlight and provide energy for the colony.

The sun never shines down into this crater, so the colonist are protected from cosmic rays from the sun, and the intense heat is produces.

Gentlemen, I submit that a colony at the lunar North Pole can be a paradise compared to the dangerous Martian colonies which so many misguided people seem to think we should waste money and endanger human lives to establish!

Anybody agree?
Question
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gord Green
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 2940
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theoreticly this could be an option.

It would not be necessary for the entire installation to be rotated, just the "living" areas (the same principle could be applied in inter-Solar System spacecraft.). Microgravity in "working" areas for limited times would be offset by the time spent in full gravity. Without it, any residents for more than a year or so would never be able to return to the Earth

While possible I hold that it could support a small group of 100 to 200 individuals. Anything larger may be possible in a few hundred years....so....theoretically speaking it would be a vision of a far future way to support a larger community on the Moon.

Bottom line....A good idea.

I still think a Martian "colony" would be impractical, but research stations supported by a Mars orbital mother ship (like the Hermes in the movie THE MARTIAN) would be effective. The same for the Moon. Full fledged conventional self supported colonies would only be possible with a few hundred years of technological advances.

_________________
There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alltare
Quantum Engineer


Joined: 17 Jul 2015
Posts: 351

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud,

Look at this photo of the Disney Golden Zephyr rocket ride. The axis of the ride is perpendicular to the ground. As the rotational speed increases, the rockets will swing more upward and outward on their supporting wires. At any rotational speed, and no matter what the "angle of the dangle" is, the apparent gravity will be perpendicular to the floor of the rocket. At 45 degrees, the "apparent gravity" should be about 41 percent greater than normal downward gravity.

So anyway, if you know how much gravity you want, you can build your giant donut that spins at a calculated rotation speed with a floor that is at the calculated angle for that G force. The whole thing would spin on at axis that is at 90 degrees to the ground plane, just like the Zephyr, and not at 45 as you suggested. You would not experience pulsating gravitation as you would with your design.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gord Green
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 2940
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The angle of the torus floor would be on gimbles that would allow the level of the floor to adjust to the angular momentum to always appear to be level to anyone inside.

I would imagine that the method would be to run it on a circular track powered by electric motors connected to solar panels and fuel cells.

_________________
There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alltare
Quantum Engineer


Joined: 17 Jul 2015
Posts: 351

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the engineers who designed the moving highways in Heinlein's "The Roads Must Roll" could offer valuable assistance in building Bud's Gravity Donut.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gord Green
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 2940
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Perhaps the engineers who designed the moving highways in Heinlein's "The Roads Must Roll" could offer valuable assistance in building Bud's Gravity Donut

As long as we don't get a union revolt to mix it up! Hate to miss dinner with the Mrs!
_________________
There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17018
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alltare wrote:
The whole thing would spin on at axis that is at 90 degrees to the ground plane, just like the Zephyr, and not at 45 as you suggested. You would not experience pulsating gravitation as you would with your design.


Alltare, we agree on this completely. However your statement here: "You would not experience pulsating gravitation as you would with your design," suggests that the rotating ring would vary in speed. I envisioned the rotating section spinning constantly at a set speed, with the angle of the floor designed for that specific speed of rotation.

However, there are some drawbacks to that idea, as your picture and Gord's suggestion pointed out.

By coincidence, the 45° angle I described for the floor of the rotating area is just about what we see in the jpeg of the Zephyr. The angle of the floor of the ride rockets is about 45°, and so are the wires that hold them up (although tilted in the opposite direction, of course).

I simplified my description a little just to pitch the concept, but you're photo shows something which supports Gordon's suggestion, which said —


Gord wrote:
The angle of the torus floor would be on gimbals that would allow the level of the floor to adjust to the angular momentum to always appears to be level to anyone inside.

That would be much better than making the floor of the rotating section "fixed" at 45°, because if the rotating area was ever stopped (for maintenance, for example) the interior would remain at that angle when the centrifugal force was no longer "correcting" the gravity.

Plus, Gord's idea to make the ring in sections that can swing outward as the spinning ring increases speed would mean the rotation could be at any speed we choose, and therefore would "always appears to be level to anyone inside", as Gord said.

I didn't include that idea in my description because I knew that keeping all the gimbaled sections sealed from each other so their joined ends could twist as the angle changed would be tricky, and it would prevent the living area from having any large open sections.

If the floor of the entire ring was unbroken and permanently fixed at 45° (for example) we could create a much less claustrophobic environment for the colonists.

I supposes the living area could be encased in a solid ring-shaped tube to hold the pressure inside, allowing the interior of the living area to be made in sections that rotated within the tube to produce the gimbal effect Gord suggested.

Admittedly, the sections of the floor would only join up and be curved correctly at the full spinning speed, because at any speed less than that they'd be shaped like a series of shallow U shapes, with high and low points all the way around the ring! Shocked

However, since the ring will be spinning most of the time, this will only be a problem when the ring stops for some reason.

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> SCIENCE now, add FICTION later All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group