 |
ALL SCI-FI
The place to “find your people”.
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Krel
Guest
|
 Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:47 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Bud Brewster wrote: | Think of the impact of the discovery as being like the Apollo program -- people don't realize all the benefits we got from the research done to make those small fragile lunar modules and lunar landers.
So, don't think in terms of "When will be begin to build ships like this?" Instead, think of all the advancements we'd get from studying the parts, the materials, and the principals. |
But that is the point! The U.S. space program was made with then current technology. They had to make some new things, but the infrastructure was there to make it. Not like an alien ship, where everything, or most everything will need new infrastructures for, like you said. New parts, materials, principles, manufacturing processes and countless other items.
| Bud Brewster wrote: | Heck, there are people today who say the electronics explosion that's happened over the last 60 years is from captured alien technology -- but we still don't have spaceships like the ones we captured!
(Not that I'm saying we did that. You never heard me say that. This post does not exist . . .  ) |
There are always people that think that. I once read that fiber optics were discovered around 1918, the principles of transistors in the 1920s. The man that invented the photocopy process tried to market it in the 19230s, no one wanted it until Xerox took an interest in the 1950s. And Xerox had difficulty convincing companies to use it.
David. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Pye-Rate
Starship Co-Pilot
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 625
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The how to of transistors was worked out in the 1920's. The boffin also knew he did not have the tech to make it. The theory was formulated in the 1880's.
The strong-glass that is the face of smart phones was developed by Dow in 1962. Too expensive and no use for it then. 2002 a new process was adapted to make it that was cheap and it was what smart phones needed. Other materials in consideration cost 4 times as much or more. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17146
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Krel wrote: | | The U.S. space program was made with then current technology. They had to make some new things, but the infrastructure was there to make it. Not like an alien ship, where everything, or most everything will need new infrastructures for, like you said. New parts, materials, principles, manufacturing processes and countless other items. |
Respectfully, sir, I think you're still missing my point. I'm not saying they'll start studying a new material and then begin cranking it out in factories a week later.
I'm saying that even the very small things they learn will have a vast effect on our technology -- eventually.
Some things might become useful almost overnight. Other things will take years to develop. But even if they study a new material and never get a clue as to how to make it, the very fact that they suddenly realized a miraculous material (for example) CAN be made will galvanize industry and motivate the funding for an explosive era of research!
You said, "The U.S. space program was made with then current technology."
No, it really wasn't. The space program caused the new technology to made. My laptop is a thousand times more powerful than the Apollo guidance computers. But the need for those computers caused them to improve the room-sized electronic behemoths that existed up until then, and turn them into to the usable devices that could be installed in those poor, weight-critical Apollo ships.
And because of the problems that had to be solved and new developments the space program demanded, new technology came into being and continued to advance.
You're thinking of "current technology" like the floor of a building, and "future technology" as the next floor up.
Actually, "current technology" is a step on a long staircase -- and tomorrow we'll be one more step up. Ditto for the day after that.
An alien spacecraft that's being studied can give us a glimpse at steps far above us, even though we can't reach them yet -- and we might even get to skip a few steps if we can figure out bits and pieces of the aliens' science.
Hells bells, even if our scientists NEVER learn how to duplicate a fabulous new material or a super-whatchama-callit which they find in an alien ship, their efforts to solve the problem will result in fifty new materials and new devices we wouldn't have possessed without the inspiration provided by the miraculous alien whatever-it-is!
Do you see what I mean now? This kind of thing has happened before! The world's science and industry went into high gear during WWII because various nations desperately wanted new developments. Their need inspired the frantic research and development that produced Germany's rockets and our own atomic bombs.
Today, those have become space shuttles, communication satellites, and nuclear reactors.
Same thing here. The need to understand and utilize amazing new materials and gizmos found in an advanced spacecraft will super-charge the researchers, and great things will come from their efforts to understand them -- even if they never figure out the stuff they found in the spaceship! 
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Randy
Space Ranger
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 127
Location: Ohio
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Japanese are already building their own "FTL Ship" using discoveries from alien technology.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Krel
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bud Brewster wrote: | | Respectfully, sir, I think you're still missing my point. |
I don't think that I am, and I believe we are making the same basic point, but from different directions.
I'm aware that technological process is like a long stair case, but there is a first step. I still say that the innovations in technology from the space program was built on then current technology, there was no radical leap in technology. Like you stated it was in steps, and the side benefits to the public came slowly, in small pieces. But completely alien technologies and materials are going to take a lot longer to implement, because there is no base, it will have to be made.
An example to illustrate my point (which I appear to me making poorly). Take a Bell Jet Ranger, Harrier Jump Jet, Concord Jet, Space Shuttle or even a PC and give it to a primitive tribe in the Amazon or other primitive area. Supposing that they can, in a short time work out the design, materials composition and thousands of other details. How long would it take them to start duplicating the technology and materials? A long time, BECAUSE they don't have the infrastructure to reproduce it, it will have to be built.
If we had the starship and could figure it out, small changes would come pretty fast, but it will be a long climb before we have the infrastructure to equal the alien technology.
David. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17146
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Krel wrote: | | If we had the starship and could figure it out, small changes would come pretty fast, but it will be a long climb before we have the infrastructure to equal the alien technology. |
By gum, David, you're right. We do agree. I think I misunderstood. A captured alien spaceship might be so advanced it would take decades to make even the tiny breakthrough in deciphering its secrets.
And then, as you said, more decades would pass before any practical applications were developed.
What I was going on-and-on about was just my own fondness for the concept that new inventions don't just come from intelligence, they also come from imagination.
(Yeah, yeah, we all know that, but I like to say it, and since I've got my very own message board, nobody can tell me shut up and go away!  )
Science fiction literature, movies, and TV shows inspire the development of technology just because they make it look so cool! The first landing on the Moon was made by Neil Armstrong, it was made by George Pal. Armstrong just made the sequel!
So, what could inspire people more than a real, live alien spacecraft?
As I said, even if they never managed to figure out a single thing about the alien technology, just knowing that all those advancements were possible would spur mankind to develop new technology on his own!
And if we did come up with a primitive version of a single advanced component -- say, a computer chip, before we had them --- the effects on the mankind's technology would be far reaching (to put it mildly).
I like your analogy about the primitive tribe and the jet fighter. Here's how my idea would work in that case.
Young Aba Bowandu has gazed at the sky since he was little boy, envying the birds, yearning to take flight and soar through the clouds. But his tribe lives in the most primitive conditions imaginable, and he's never even ridden in an automobile.
But the sight of a jet fighter a group of terrorists stole and hide in the jungle fires his imagination, and he realizes that such a miraculous device was designed by people just like him, built by people like him, flown by people like him!
Inspired by this revelation, the young African boy leaves his village, seeks out educational opportunities, graduates from college, and earns a pilot's license to fly small planes.
Did that young boy ever understand one wit of the technology behind the jet he saw in the jungle? Crap no! But it opened his mind to new ideas and new possibilities.
David, you said, "There has to be a first step."
Ah, but the first step in the stairway of technological advancement happened thousands of years ago when the a caveman invented a thing called a campfire, and his friend walked up and said:
"Hey, that might work good with these marshmallows I just made!" 
Randy: I don't think the claim by the Japanese concerning the FTL spacecraft their building will hold water.
Oops, my bad! Yes it will! 
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Randy
Space Ranger
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 127
Location: Ohio
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
FTL Ship= Floating Total Luxury Ship
The bathroom on that ship is larger then mine at home!!!
That thing costs more to launch on the water then it would to launch it into space!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17146
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Good lord, Randy! Haven't you learned to spot my photographic trickery yet? I obviously created the picture above by taking this new Japanese starship and putting water around it! 
Jeez, the damn water in the picture above looks really fake! Sorry, guys, I rushed the job . . .
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Randy
Space Ranger
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 127
Location: Ohio
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Now THAT looks like the kind of "water" I'm used to seeing.
Just look at those HUGE bubbles!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
orzel-w
Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1876
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"Demaint buses, demmer trucks,
Summit cows an summit ducks."
_________________
...or not...
WayneO
----------- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17146
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
__________________________________
I got my CD of The Thing from Another World, and it is spectacular!
There's even a short section of music during the explosion scene and a few other tracks that weren't used in the movie!
I ran the sound through my equalizer to boost the slightly limited range of the treble and base, but doing that gave the great music the omph it needed to fill my living room with Dimitri Tiomkin's powerful score.
After listening to that CD, I listen to my recently acquired CD of The Space Children / The Colossus of New York, which I hadn't even unwrapped yet.
Aaaaah . . . soundtrack heaven.
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17146
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
___________________________________________
Interesting facts about the background painting that nobody but Wayne and I know, because we figured them out ourselves! 
It was modified at least twice after the first few shots were done.
Originally it had this big honkin' seam —
-- but they tried to disguise it with this elaboration that made the cloud look like a T —
-- and then just before the thermite was set off they added the dark cloud shown in the second and third pictures below, smack in the middle for no apparent reason.
Remember, you heard it here first, folks!
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:06 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
orzel-w
Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1876
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17146
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| orzel-w wrote: | | And until my DVD arrives, I won't be able to study the scenes where they're digging up the ice. |
Unfortunately there's not much data to be gained from the five-second scene of the guys swinging the pickaxes. Scotty and the other guy smack the "ice" exactly two times each (without visible results).
If I had to guess, I'd say they had a concrete slab already in place in that area of the RKO ranch, and they just dusted it with fake snow and called it "ice".
To illustrate how brief the scene is, one of the two shots below is darker than the other because the scene starts to fade to the plane taking off right there during the second swing of the pickaxes!
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:07 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pow
Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3434
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| John Dierkes played Dr.Chapman, the man who throws the glass of water into the face of the hysterical soldier, auditioned for the role of Lurch for The Addams Family TV series. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
