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20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1954)
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

You're absolutely right, Scotspen. Very Happy

The "submerging" effect was simple, and nobody was fooled by it, but we all enjoyed the experience anyway.

The audio of the narration on the YouTube video doesn't do the ride justice. And the fact that the park guests could constantly look around during the ride and see the view from both sides of the sub while they shared the experience with the other folks made this ride a magical occasion.

I wish I could take my grandchildren to Disney World before I'm gone. That would be terrific! Very Happy

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Pow
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just watched a segment on Youtube that featured the scene where the giant squid battles crew of the Nautilus.

What is unique about it is that it's the confrontation as originally filmed where the scene takes place on a calm quiet sea at sunset.

This footage was thought to be lost until now.

As fans of this wonderful classic sci-fi movie we all heard how the original scene was later re-shot to take place during night on a stormy sea.

It was thought that this change could obscure some of the more glaring artificial looking aspects of the gigantic animatronic squid. As well as the wires that operated the tentacles.

Makes sense, plus, the nighttime scene is far more dramatic & frightening looking.

However, I was impressed with the footage of the sunset battle & did not find the squid terribly phony looking or a disaster.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Thanks, Pow!

Here's the Youtube video Pow found. Remarkable! Shocked
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20,000 Leagues Under the Sea original squid attack


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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
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Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:07 am; edited 2 times in total
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orzel-w
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sequence was included (full frame) in the 2003 DVD release of 20k. The YouTube upload has been cropped to a letterbox frame format to simulate CinemaScope.

I must admit that the cropping helps improve the impact of the footage, probably due to the tightening of the framing. I don't know if the 16mm footage was used for viewing dailies at the time, but that may have influenced their critical appraisal of the sequence. Also, they were probably viewing unedited footage and without a musical score, both of which add to the impact.

The comment was reportedly heard at the dailies screening that the crewmen looked like Keystone Cops in trying to help with the manipulation of the tentacles. Even in this edited version some glimpses of that element remain.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing to consider about squids is that their tentacles have hooks on them to help hold their prey. So those grabbed by the squid would get pretty ripped up.

When Stephen Spielberg was in preparations for "Jaws", the only person he could find to make Bruce the shark, was the man that made the squid for this movie.

David.
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Maurice
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that really behind the scenes footage? Because it looks too well framed for that.

I was always bothered even in the finished films the way the arms (squids only have two tentacles and 8 arms) sort of flailed aimlessly in the air. That's the main thing that jolts me out of the scene.

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orzel-w
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maurice wrote:
Is that really behind the scenes footage? Because it looks too well framed for that.

I believe the practice at the studio was to have a 16mm camera mounted alongside the 35mm (for some takes, at least) to record the same scenes. I'm not sure what the main purpose of the 16mm footage was, perhaps to record something for use on the Disney TV programs or other promotional use. It could be edited for trailers in theaters, since CinemaScope was in its infancy, and theaters wouldn't have been set up to project CinemaScope unless the main feature happened to be in that format.
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orzel-w
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come to think of it, after seeing the 16mm version cropped to CinemaScope dimensions on YouTube, another possibility comes to mind. We know from articles and interviews regarding the filming of 20k that CinemaScope lenses were in short supply back then. (Disney had to lease the only available CinemaScope lens from Fox.)

The simultaneous 16mm filming may have been a means of having something to view for evaluating the results of the day's filming, and possibly to test-edit, without having to watch the squeezed images that resulted from filming with the CinemaScope lens but projected without one. The 16mm footage could have been masked during viewing at the studio, like the cropped version found by Pow, to simulate the CinemaScope format.

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I posted this this stunning painting by Gregory Manchess (oil on canvas) in the section called Sci-Fi novels and short stories, which has a thread called Best editions of Jules Verne.

I thought it should be posted here, too. Hot damn, I wish I'd painted this.



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~ The Space Children (1958)


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Custer
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gregory Manchess seems a talented artist - his FaceBook page has plenty of examples, and apparently he writes novels too, as well as supplying Conan covers. A Google image search brought up lots of paintings, though they would have been a bit Off Topic for this thread.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote




I was very impressed with this exceptional 21-page Cinefantastique article from May 1983, Volume 14, Number 3. I'm sure it will inspire several new posts on this thread. Very Happy


Click on each page here to see a large, easy-to-read version you can zoom in on. Click on the large version again, and then zoom in as close as you want!













































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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

The article is filled with great information! Here are some examples.

I was surprised to learn that when Harper Goff presented the first version of the Nautilus to Walt, an 18-inch model. Walt did NOT like it! He told Goff that the Nautilus should be a smooth cylinder with a bullet nose. He used an aluminum cigar capsule to show what he meant. Shocked

Naturally Goff knew that would be a mistake. It would have been a dull design, and not the least bit consistent with the period in which the vessel had been built.

I also did not know that originally the movie was going to be an animated feature. When Disney decided to make 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea a live action film, he added the sound stages and production departments needed for live action filming, basically reinventing the Disney studio grounds in the process!

As for that amazing submarine, Harper Goff based the Nautilus on several physical features of sharks and alligators. The dorsal and tale were obviously inspired by the shark, but I never knew the the two green lights above the wheelhouse ports where inspired by the eyes of alligators, which show above the surface of the water while most of the gater’s body is submerged.






Goff's designs for the interior are not only brilliant and beautiful, the article also details the way he designed engineering features the vessel would need if it were a real submarine. One example are the tubes he proposed which would run through the ship, one set to carry air, and other set to carry water for ballast.

I admire Goff for thinking of his fictional submarine in practical terms and working out engineering elements like that.

While watching the movie recently I noted that Goff chose to indicate the ship was made out of iron, with a slightly rusted look. In the article, he states that this was consistent with the period, and that a more futuristic “polished steel” appearance would have been inappropriate.

As for who supposedly constructed the Nautilus in the story, for years I toyed with the notion that Nemo designed the Nautilus and then subcontracted the construction to various industries around the world, none of whom knew what the complete design looked like or what their individual components were for. Nemo then had the components shipped to some port city, and he with the help of his crew he transported them by ship to Vulcania for final assembly.

Goff’s own idea for the construction of the Nautilus was that all the materials and interior equipment (even the pipe organ) were acquired from shipwrecks on the sea floor.

That’s very consistent with Nemo’s efforts to have the sea provide all his physical needs . . . but I’m wondering how he salvaged these things before he built the Nautilus! And even after acquiring them, how did he and his crew build that elaborate complex on Vulcania and then construct the Nautilus — all without help from anyone else?

Trivia note: I did NOT know that the director of this film, Richard Fleischer, was the son of Max Fleischer, the great producer who made many wonderful cartoons and who was actually Disney’s competitor in that field. In fact, Richard Fleischer stated that Walt and Max were “bitter enemies for so many years.”

That’s why Richard went to his father after being offered the director’s chair and asked him if it was okay to take the job!

Max Fleischer’s answer was, “Oh God, yes! Take the job. I think it’s wonderful. Tell Walt he’s got very good taste.” Very Happy

The article states that this was the first movie to use detailed story boards — 1,300 of them, 60 of which were for the squid sequence alone! I wonder if those drawings still exist. I’d love to see them.

James Mason turned down the offer to play Nemo at first because he was afraid it was going to be “children’s film”. But when Fleischer was chosen to direct, Mason agreed to star in the movie. Later he was offered the chance to reprise the role in Mysterious Island, but he turned it down. I, for one, think highly of Herbert Lom’s portrayal of Nemo, and that’s one of the many reasons I adore that Harrison movie as much as any of his others.

The article describes in detail the many problems which occurred doing the very first scene that was filmed — the underwater burial.



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In the midst of staging a fake emergency for a team of Life Magazine photographers, two real emergencies occurred, causing the crew to use the carefully designed hand signals they’d devised to communicate with each other underwater. (You can read the details of this event on page 44.)

During that same scene, the crew devised a clever way to have lots of colorful tropical fish in camera range. The presence of the divers and the noisy camera was frightening the beautiful fish away . . . so the local fishermen were recruited to net hundreds of fish and place them in wire mesh pens, which were then located just out of the frame before a shot took place.

When the hand signal was given for “action”, the actors would perform, and the fish would be released to (hopefully) swim in front of the camera! (Oh, those clever Hollywood people!)

I’ll let you folks read the most amazing story of all in the article, located at the bottom of page 44 and the top of 45, which involved an eight foot shark which threatened the crew. The shark was caught, and they sewed it’s mouth shut so they could use in several scenes! But things went a bit wrong, and . . . well, you can read that part of the article for the amazing details!

That’s as far as I’ve gotten so far in the article, but there’s plenty more of it, and I’ll make another post when I finish. I hope you guys will do the same! Very Happy

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:51 am; edited 6 times in total
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Pow
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have loved to see the Fleischer Brothers become as prominent in animation as Disney became.

The world should have been big enough for both to encompass both those enormous talents.
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Eadie
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of the reason they didn't become as big as Disney was the difference in their stories.

Disney came from a small town and farming America while the Fleischer brothers were from the Big City.

It certainly showed in their approach to humor!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
I was surprised to learn that when Harper Goff presented the first version of the Nautilus to Walt, an 18-inch model, Walt did NOT like it! He told Goff that the Nautilus should be a smooth cylinder with a bullet nose. He used an aluminum cigar capsule to show what he meant. Shocked

Naturally Goff knew that would be a mistake. It would have been a dull design, and not the least bit consistent with the period in which the vessel had been built.

The story I read is that Disney wanted, as you wrote, a modern Skipjack design. Harper Goff was pushing for a more Victorian design, but couldn't get Disney to picture it. They broke for Labor Day weekend, and Harper Goff saw this as an opportunity. Over the long weekend, he constructed an 18 inch model of his vision of the Nautilus. He brought it to work, put it on his desk and stepped out. While he was gone, Disney was walking by and saw it sitting on Harper Goff's desk and took it. Harper Goff came back, only to find his model missing!

Heartbroken, he walked to the conference room, feeling that he had lost his opportunity to make his point. When he walked into the conference room, he found Disney crouched at the table, with his eyes at tabletop level. He was slowly rotating the model, examining it. Harper Goff knew then, that he had won.

Harper Goff also designed the diving equipment, which was dressed-up SCUBA gear. He and his brother built a prototype, and tested it in a swimming pool. Harper Goff was a bit of a SCUBA enthusiast.

When filming the diving scenes, they placed carpet on the sea floor to minimize the amount of sand that would be kicked-up.

David.
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